Explaining the Trinity
Some time ago, I called needhim.org to discuss the Trinity and find out if I’m missing something or if Christians really just can’t count.
The lady who answered the phone, Donna, described the Trinity as “really cool”, and told me that the Father = God, the Son = God and the Holy Ghost = God. I was a little confused and tried to explain the biblical narrative in these terms.
The Holy Spirit (God) has sex with the Virgin Mary to impregnate her with Jesus (God). Later, Jesus (God) is sacrificed by the Father (God) to save us from… God?
I asked Donna if she thought this meant God was a masochist, and she said “no, it was more of a symbol”. Oh? So God didn’t really sacrifice himself to appease… himself? Why couldn’t he just forgive everyone for their sins without sacrificing himself?
Donna then said that the Trinity can be explained like this; in the same way that water can be found in three states (solid, liquid and gas), so can God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). I took this very literally and asked “So it’s fair to say that God is ice, Jesus is water and the Holy Spirit is vapour?” “Yes, you could say that”, she responded. After asking a few seemingly innocent and ignorant questions such as “So Jesus walked on Jesus?”, Donna got the impression that I’d taken what she said too literally.
Donna explained to me that the Trinity had three very distinct identities. So I asked her if that meant the sum of these parts was God, to which she responded that yes, the sum of these parts is equal to God, however the parts are also independently equal to God. For the sake of simplicity, I’ll just refer to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as God (after all, they’re not polytheists, right?). What Donna was saying is God = God, which I have no problem with, but she is also saying that God + God + God = God.
Yep, they just can’t count.
The call finished with Donna speaking a prayer which begun “God, thank you for being such an awesome God…”
Good job. You really got em good huh.
infinity+infinity+infinity=…you guessed it…infinity.
fail.
also i’m sure i woudn’t have to look very hard to find an atheist whose mind wasn’t a steel trap like yours obviously is… but what would that say a bout you? …anything? nothing?…thought so…
honestly if you’re gonna attack christianity, i’m sure there are other ways that don’t make you look so retarded.
To say that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirt are all infinite, and God is infinite is massively contradictory. Infinity = infinity, but the Father != the Son, etc.
I shouldn’t have to point out that if you think of the properties of infinity, they are by definition infinite. The properties of each element of the Trinity are clearly finite otherwise it wouldn’t be necessary to have three of them
It is annoying that you would call someone and harass who most likely is either A:) volunteering her time, for what she feels is a good cause or B:) Working her job. Of course you’re probably right, and I too can use simple math concepts to describe complex systems of biological, theological, philosophical nature and in my free time assume my personal experiences have bestowed me with some authority over other people and their laughable ideas/beliefs that though I don’t understand I know are unintelligent . How about you find something else to other than call people and force your belief on them through mocking and patronizing them. It is one thing to be an idiot on the internet, but another to intentionally waste someone’s time. Not Mention if you are going to even post a blog on the Christian Trinity you could at least look into Islamic and Judaism beliefs on the topic as well.
Here’s the greatest book every written on the Trinity. At least, it’s the only book on the Trinity ever written that has a belly laugh on every page. By Dorothy L. Sayers.
If you read this, and still think the Trinity is absurd, I’d like to read your reasons. Thanks.
http://www.tinyurl.com/mind-of-the-maker
why are Christian responses to secular criticism so… emotively based? Is it so impossible to respond with, I don’t know… something rational?
Father god, we father god father god that father god will father god by fathering father god god father.
I don’t see how asking questions about a person’s belief is forcing YOUR belief onto her. There was no mention in the blog of bef doing anything other than asking questions… so unless you are the woman he was talking to, maybe you shouldn’t be so judgemental, hm?
Not to mention that you’ve only made a comment on this post. Maybe you should look into footbullet’s other posts and comment on them, too, because otherwise whatever you write will mean nothing. It’s the least you can do!
Tez, the point Poly raises is clearly valid. I did not, at any time, force my beliefs upon Donna, I simply questioned hers – which is the entire point of the call center that she works in.
I am hardly wasting her time given that she is employed (whether she is paid or a volunteer, I’m not sure) by needhim.org to answer peoples questions about Christianity, and that’s precisely what I was asking her to do.
I’m possibly ignorant on this subject, so forgive my treading what may be obvious ground. My understanding of the claim of the trinity has been the father, son and spirit are three different persons who share a common God-ness, for lack of a better term. Given that a contradiction occurs when claiming that a thing is, in the same sense and at the same time, a different thing, I don’t see the contradiction. It’s like saying an accountant, a plumber and a chef are three separate people, yet all human. Any one of them is fully human in isolation without need for the others, and at the same time, there aren’t three different types of humans (let’s ignore H. neanderthalensis et al. in this case), just one type, a set in which they are all members.
heh
Well, if it’s along the lines of 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 it works.
Hi Jeff,
I’m a Christian. I know it seems patronizing but the answers to a lot of what you go after are actually in the Bible and answers to the rest are just not going to be revealed yet. Sorry. It’s just that way. God does not ask your permission on how he sets things up and runs them.
I do find some of your humor pretty good but I don’t find your logic particularly vexing or troublesome. It’s always funny when you see someone pitching that stuff anew but it’s still old hat.
Here’s a couple of fun circular logic problems from real life.
1) This sentence is a lie.
2) The square root of negative one. (There isn’t one but we have created a whole set of “imaginary” answers because they are necesary for many “real life” equations especially involving electronics. Ask any electrician if he beleives electricity is real.)
Here’s a fun one more up your funny alley, “Can God make a rock so big that he can’t pick it up?”
Anyway, how would you classify yourself. I think from your writings that you think you are an atheist. The problem is there is no such thing as athiests. There are only people who deny what they know because they are unable to come to terms with the things that they don’t know.
Agnostics are a much more honest group. It is undeniable that there is a “God” force of some sort out there. At least these guys are real enough to say they just can’t establish a clear idea of what that is.
Whoops,
I’m not sure if I directed that post to the right person…
I guess it was intended for the original author of this thread but it probably applies to Jeffrey too. Especially if bef and Jeffrey are one and the same. hmmmmm